Has God a form?

"Has God a form?" he asked.
"Who says God has a form?" Sri Bhagavan retorted.
The questioner persisited, "If God is formless is it not wrong to ascribe to him the form of an idol and worship him in it?"
He had understood the retort to mean, "Nobody says God has a form." But it meant exactly what it said and was now amplified, "Let God alone; tell me first whether you have a form."
"Of course I have a form, as you can see, but I am not God."
"Are you then the physical body made of flesh and bones and blood and nicely dressed?"
"Yes, that must be so; I am aware of my existence in this bodily form."
"You call yourself that body because now you are aware of your body, but are you that body? Can it be yourself in deep sleep when you are quite unaware of its existence?"
"Yes, I must have remained in the same bodily form even in deep sleep because I am aware of it until I fall asleep, and as soon as I wake I see that I am just as I was when I went to sleep."
"And when death occurs?"
The questioner stopped and thought a minute, "Well, then I am considered dead and the body is buried."
"But you said your body is yourself. When it is being taken away to be buried why doesn't it protest and say: 'No! No! don't take me away! This property I have acquired, these clothes I am wearing, these children I have begotten, they are all mine, I must remain with them!'"
The visitor then confessed that he had wrongly identified himself with the body and said, "I am the life in the body, not the body in itself."
Then Sri Bhagavan explained to him: "Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble. Until that ignorance is got rid of, until you know your formless nature, it is mere pedantry to argue about God and whether He has a form or is formless or whether it is right to worship God in the form of an idol when He is really formless. Until one sees the formless Self one cannot truly worship the formless God."

(Sri Ramana Maharshi and the Path of Self-Knowledge, Arthur osborne; 1978, 122)

ramanamaharshi

What qualifications do you have to assess the competence or otherwise of spiritual teachers?

An incident related by Roda McIver to Wolter A. Keers, and
subsequently recorded in David Godman's 'The Power of the Presence', Part 3, p. 308; 2002.

Two men came to the Ashram. One of them pointed to the other and said, 'Bhagavan, this man has accepted a certain person as his Guru. That Guru has not reached any great state himself. I want to show my friend what a real Guru looks like. I want him to feel what it is like to be in the presence of a fully enlightened Guru, so I have brought him here to see you. I am hoping that by bringing him here I will be able to divert him from a wrong path.'

Bhagavan was furious with the man. In a very angry tone he replied, 'How do you know that his Guru is not a good Guru? What qualifications do you have to assess the competence or otherwise of spiritual teachers? And even if you did have that qualification, what right do you have to tell this man that his own Guru is no good? The disciple's devotion in many cases is more important than the Guru's qualifications. If worshipped with great devotion, even a stone becomes Iswara.'

Bhagavan never liked to hear visitors or devotees criticising other ashrams and other Gurus.

Practicing Vichara (SELF-ENQUIRY) - From whose standpoint is the world seen? -

"I am the Self, O Gudakesa, abiding in the Hearts of all beings. I am the beginning, the middle and also the end of all beings."
(BHAGAVAD GITA)

J.: If this world around us is illusion [J. bangs the table], where does the illusion come from? Who creates it?

Miles.: Jiva imagines it. Look! There have been plenty of theories about creation or maya...illusion. Pick one!! Now we're looking for the Creator. He's a powerful guy [don't hassle me about gender - (laughs) - he's a genderless guy.] He's...She's...see the problem we have. We've only just started to discuss Creation and already it's become tediously dry and polemical. Even His gender is undecided because the view is always from the standpoint of the viewer. Now ...here's a clue we can follow. Each one is creating the world in their own image. Every morning we re-create. Yet, every night we go to bed, and the world is destroyed, indeed, we willingly go to bed, relinquishing the waking state, to attain that delightful, blissful, sleep. BRAHMA, VISHNU, SIVA - the daily cycle. ...Where's the creation question then?

J.: What do you mean creating in our own image?

M.: Well whose standpoint is the world seen from? Whose perspective? Whose standards? Who makes the judgements as to what is good and what is bad? Can I stand in your place? Can you stand in mine? When a few people stand around Arunacala and describe what they see, what happens? One will describe the experience as one of overwhelming beauty, another might describe the throngs of pilgrims, yet another might be disgusted at the amount of rubbish. Where's the Truth in all this? Relative descriptions based on preconception and misconception. Waste of space, waste of time. Where is all this coming from? Who really looks? There is the real Arunachala.

J.: I do. I try to look without clouding the issue. And just see.

M.: OK. ...So if this is the case why are you asking all these questions? If you just see ...where's the room for this discussion?

J.: I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at.

M.: This 'just see' business sounds like a ? ? (name withheld) answer. New Age claptrap. Don't just repeat what you've heard. Who hears? Who sees? This is the point. Who sees? Even now in this conversation Vichara should be raging!! Never let it stop!! Set the autopilot!! [laughs] It'll see you through.

Let's get back to the creation question. 'TALKS', who's got 'TALKS'?

Thank you. [Pause] OK. From Talk 610: [reads]

'The object of creation is to remove the confusion of your individuality. The question shows that you have identified yourself with the body and therefore see yourself and the world around. You think you are the body. Your mind and intellect are the factors of your wrong identity.'

If we believe that we are individuals capable of acting independently, the chain of cause and effect is well and truly set in motion. This becomes our reality. As doers of action we become accountable for action and that includes acceptance of the fruits of that action, including the bitter ones. This misunderstanding is the illusion... is the human condition. What's the solution?

B.: Vichara.

M.: Indeed.

"The Heart is used in the Vedas and the scriptures to denote the place whence the notion 'I' springs." (Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi)

---

The whole universe is in the body, the whole body is in the Heart; therefore the entire manifestation of the
universe is contained in the Heart.

(RAMANA GITA)
ramanamaharshi

---

a c a l a y o g a

a c a l a y o g a: "Enough of this rubbish!

30th May, 1936

Talk 190.
There is a pet squirrel in the hall which usually retires into its cage before nightfall. Just as Maharshi was telling it to retire for the night a visitor who had announced that he had attained the transcendent consciousness suggested that water might be offered to it, since it was likely to be thirsty on this hot evening. His presumption to understand animals evoked no response. He repeated it. After a few minutes’ silence Maharshi said, “You are probably thirsty after your long meditation in the hot Sun on the hotter rocks and you would like to drink a jug of water.”

D.: Quite so. I have taken water.

M.: The squirrel is not so thirsty. Because you were practising austerities in the heat of the Sun you should feel thirsty. Why prescribe it for the squirrel? Maharshi added: I noticed him standing on the hot rocks facing the Sun with eyes closed. I stood there for a while but did not want to disturb him and came away. These people do as they please.

D.: What I did, I did not intend beforehand. It was spontaneous.

M.: Oh! I see! Whatever we others do, we do with intention! You seem to have transcended all!

D.: This is not the first time I did so. You yourself inspire me and make me do all these things. Yet you ask me why I did it. How is it?

M.: I see. You are doing actions being controlled by me. Then the fruits also should be considered similarly to be mine and not yours.

D.: So they are undoubtedly. I act not of my free will but inspired by you. I have no will of my own.

M.: Enough of this rubbish! So did Duryodhana of old (in the Mahabharata) say:

janami dharmam nacha me pravrittih,
janamyadharmam nacha me nivrittih.
kenapi devana hridi sthitena
yatha niyuktosmitatha karomi.

[I know what dharma is, but am unable to practice it. I know what adharma is, but I am unable to escape it. As I am directed, so I do, with a certain sorrow remaining in my heart.]

What is the difference between you two?

D.: I see no difference. But I have no will and act without it.

M.: You have risen high above the common run. We others are acting with personal will.

D.: How, Sir? You have said in one of your works that action can be automatic.

M.: Enough! Enough! You and another visitor behave as transcendental beings! You are both fully learned. You need not learn more. I would not have said all this had you not been coming here frequently. Do as you please. But these eccentricities of the beginner’s stage will become known in their true light after some time.

D.: But I have been in this state for such a long time.

M.: Enough!

(Talks; Sri Ramanasramam, 1978 edition)"
ramanamaharshi, acalayoga

Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi - free PDF download

a c a l a y o g a: "Thank you to Sri Ramanasramam for making this wonderful resource freely available from Ramana Maharshi web site

At a time when Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi's name is used, increasingly, by commercial concerns, and pseudo ashrams, for personal gain and self-evident profiteering, it is a delight to find the Ashram which grew up around Bhagavan continues to mirror His inimitable spirit."

ramanamaharshi